Elderly Dependent Relatives - more misery for UK Citizens
Guest Post. Yana is suffering from the family immigration rule changes introduced in July this year. We asked her for her story...
We have a wide and varied circle of international friends here in Edinburgh. There is Patrick from Ireland married to Jing from China, Andy a Scot married to Katarina from Poland, Jose from Spain married to Lisa from Argentina and Mike from Netherlands married to Olga from Russia. Then there is me and John, both British citizens.
We are all different shapes and sizes: Jose prefers coffee to tea and Jing goes for rice over potatoes. But when we all meet up we have good times together comparing stories about our families around the world and I am reminded how the small the world has become and how we all share the same common wishes and experiences: the desire to give our children the best possible start in life, the longing to be together as a family and the heart ache of being apart. We share all these in common and there is not much to tell us apart - except that is until it comes to UK immigration rules. That is when we found out that John and I are the odd ones out… Here is our story.
Widowed
My Mum is a Russian citizen and lives in Russia on her own: I am her only child and she was widowed two and half years ago when my dad was killed in a car crash.
After many years of waiting, this summer we were fortunate to be blessed with twin girls. My mother retired from her job to come to the UK for half a year on a visitor visa to help us with our children. Following the difficult years after my dad’s tragic death we were looking forward to bringing my mum to live with us and begin to enjoy a happy family life all together. Under the previous immigration rules this would have been possible and we were planning to apply for a settlement visa for my Mum, however, following the introduction of the new immigration rules in July this year, we are in total despair as the route has effectively been closed off. The situation is causing severe distress to all of us; instead of enjoying motherhood I spend most of my days desperately trying to find a solution to this cruel situation, and I know that there are many, many other British people in the same position…
Emotional
The new rules have set the proof of dependency so high that it is difficult to imagine any circumstances where a visa would be granted. As a consequence of the new requirements, should the sponsor earn a reasonable salary, it is deemed that they can afford to pay for care in their parent’s home country. If the sponsor does not earn a reasonable salary, they will not be able to prove that they can support their elderly parent without recourse to public funds. So, regardless of your personal financial circumstances, it is unlikely that the elderly parents will ever be allowed to come and live in the UK with their children, they just have to wait for parents to become incapacitated and be solely dependent on the sponsor in the UK, with no other close relatives who might be able to offer support to them in the country of origin. Also, and, rather, appallingly, such important things as the value of family and emotional support for those elderly parents who feel isolated and lonely, especially if they live on their own, have been completely ignored by these new rules.
All political parties claim that families form the ‘bedrock’ of a strong and stable society, but the recent changes threaten to tear thousands of families apart. These rules, apart from being totally impracticable, fail to recognise the very basic right of families to live together under the same roof. This right should never be violated, at least not in the country that calls itself a developed democracy. Yet this is exactly what the Government’s policies are doing to people all over the country. It seems particularly ironic that it is British citizens that are being most severely affected by these new rules.
Bolsheviks
In the 1930s my great grandfather’s family were forced off their land, had their property and belongings confiscated by the Bolsheviks and were exiled to the north of Russia because they were a little bit richer than everybody else in their village. In the 21st century Britain I have been penalised for the fact that I have a mother who is not British and deprived of the right to live comfortably with my family in the country that I am a citizen of. Why? Since coming to this country I have studied, at my own expense, volunteered with several charities, worked hard and paid taxes; I have never claimed benefits. So, I ask what have I done to deserve this?
As parents we want to stay in our own country and raise our children as British citizens, but if we do this we are effectively being told by the current Government to abandon my mother left widowed and that she has to be vegetating before her settlement in the UK can be even considered. It is not fair that families are being forced to make such choices.
I find it appalling that so many British MPs of all parties have allowed Home Secretary Theresa May to implement these new regulations without any serious challenge.
Iron curtain
The world has changed significantly in the last a few decades since we met amongst the excitement and optimism of perestroika. The iron curtain has come down and people are free to travel, settle and establish families in the countries far from their homelands. But the bonds of the family remain as strong as ever and families want to live together, caring for the ones they love.
The heartbreak, stress and devastation wreaked on people who just dared to love, be it their parent, spouse or child, will be so devastating, it is something that will leave lasting effects not only on our economy but the values we pass on to the next generation.
John & Yana's story was featured on The World Tonight on BBC Radio 4 (listen from 25.00).
Comments
I sympathise with the plight of Brits whose partners/children are affected by the recent rule changes but as far as elderly dependants are concerned, sorry but this is an island and we shouldnt extend rules to apply to them. You always have the option of moving back to your homeland to care for them. We have been hospitable to you but our services are stretched as it is, we can't afford to open the doors to everyone. This is what people like me worry about, supporting changes for partners and children becoming a back door for you to lobby for extended families. Maybe its because of your pressing for this, the government has chosen to be so strict. We have seen in the past you let one person in and immediately dozens of relatives come to join them. I am close to withdrawing my support for the changes to be reversed when I read articles like this, have some respect for this country that made you welcome, be thankful YOU got in and stop pressing for more and more favours. Your doing so has made the Government take a tough stance and brought misery on folks with genuine grievances.
Hi Jeff, thanks for your comment. Whilst I can understand your concerns, I think there is a couple of important points to make on this issue:
1. If Yana's mother came to the UK, she would have no recourse to public funds - so in what way exactly can't we afford to allow such people into the UK?
2. Parents are not extended family and in this instance there is no talk of 'dozens' of relatives coming to join Yana and her family here. The point of this story is that Yana's mother has no one to turn to in Russia making the prospect of more relatives coming to the UK a fabrication.
3. You say Yana has the option of moving back to her homeland to care for her mother. Should she go alone or with her children? And John, her partner? Should the children, British citizens, be expected to live elsewhere simply because of the land of birth of their mother?
Labour shadow minister Kate Green spoke at our meeting on 9 July. She put it very well when she said (I paraphrase) that people's lives are unpredictable and at times messy. People do not plan for relationships with others in different countries and the knock on effects of cross border relationships are hard to predict. We have to account for such circumstances.
I think this is one example of such a circumstance.
hi i send u email my family unsave iam very upset my country rules very weak for local people ,people s killing my police not good work please tell me what i do my kids very upset i cant speak good english .i think u understand me thanks very much
These corrupted laws were passed deliberatley by our corrupted MP's who continue to corrupt our
country and future happiness !
Hi, it's an interesting debate, and I understand the argument that we should not let in lots of extended family, but that isn't the argument here. Recent legislation means that it's ok for people to come here who are rich, even if their riches were made immorally. It's also ok if they have skills we need, like doctors, even if a third-world country paid to train them, and they are more needed in their own country. Or if they entertain us, like footballers. But not if they are in real need (like this elderly lady, or the asylum seekers our charity supports).
The idea that we are a country that opens its arms to those in genuine need is unfortunately no longer true - if it ever was. We have become truly mean-spirited, taking whatever we can get, and only giving back if it makes us look good.
As an (African) immigrant to the UK, I can understand the frustrations of the local British people with out-of-control immigration; grievances which far right groups are experiencing.
First of all it is not a right to have one's entire family- parents, siblings etc settle in the UK. I think this practice was a most generous concession which the gov't could legitimately withdraw at any time it deemed fit. I can understand the absolute need spouses and children to join their UK sponsors, but come on- mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters etc?
I suppose you made a conscious choice to move to the UK. One of the consequences of that choice is that you left your family behind in your home country. Family bonds were not strong enough to deter your move. To later insist on this family joining you in the UK is asking too much of your hosts.
You mentioned that your mother was granted a visa to visit you. These visits should suffice and you can make them as regular as you wish.
As immigrants we should always see the other side of the argument; i.e. the genuine concern of the British people about too much immigration into their country. What troubles me is our endless demands for privileges, favours, concessions, rights etc without any regard for our obligations to our hosts.
Sorry I meant "grievances which far right groups are exploiting" 2nd line
Perhaps we need better rules need to be in place, such as a quota system, so only (say) 2 people can be sponsored every 10 years, otherwise a case needs to be made to show special circumstances? This way, cases like Yana are allowed for, without anyone taking advantage of the rules to opening the doors to 'everyone'.
Perhaps only allow sponsorship of parents as a right of british citizens, rather than residents, just like in America?
Something Jeff seems to have missed is that in this case, Yana and John are prepared to provide all the financial guarantees required, take out private healthcare cover if NHS is the concern - just want the right to be with their family. The govt has rules in place which have COMPLETELY blocked the route to their doing things the right way, where their family reunification would not be a burden on anyone.
However, where this British couple and their two kids are being denied the right to look after the ageing mum/mother in law/grandma in the UK even with financial guarantees, the door is left open to someone from elsewhere in the world, who is just married to an EU citizen (not British!) to bring in their actual extended families (aunts, uncles, cousins!) to the UK, without any financial guarantees!.
So the government has taken away the basic right of British people, while affording even greater rights to foreigners..and Yana and John's downfall? That they're both British, instead of either of them being French or Polish or German or Irish or Greek!!
Finally, if the government wants to slam the door on parents, then
a) they should have had a phase in period, so people could plan accordingly..not change it in one month, for something that people may have spent 10 years planning, thinking, ok, when my mother is not able to live alone then she will move in with me, so I can invest my life here, buy a house etc because the governemnt has said she can move here when she is 65.
b) they should just say so. Complete ban on parents. Come right out and say it, and see how different to the rest of the world we are! Don't have a criteria that no one can meet! Indeed, be prepared for the backlash, when countries like Australia also prevent British parents from moving there to join their children!
I am the author of the above post. To John: yes, I made a conscious choice when moved to the UK. What I didn't know at the time is that my father would be killed in a car accident (which was not his fault) at the age of 60. What I also did not expect is the change of the UK immigration rules where no space would be left for humanity and common sense.
I do not feel that I am asking for something extraordinary. The only thing I want is to have the opportunity to live under the same roof with my loved ones in the country where I've built my life, without bothering anybody. Is that too much?
I am sorry if our grievances do not seem 'genuine' or tragic enough to some readers (and I am aware that there are people going through far more stressful ordeals and who, undoubtedly, should receive their own justice). I just hope that nobody will experience that desperate feeling of loneliness and vulnerability in their old age, especially when they have relatives who are willing and can care of them.
As it was mentioned earlier in the discussion, life is unpredictable and I think that, at the very least, there should be flexibility in the way the rules are applied to allow greater consideration to people's special circumstances. Everyone should have the right to live with their family. I understand placing conditions on that, but the rules should be reasonable and fair (see reference to the EU citizens’ rights in the UK, outlined above by BritCits).
Well said Yana.
John, parents should not be grouped in with siblings. By definition one has two parents only. Siblings are limitless...and not often in a position where they are aging before you and therefore need your help and support in their old age!
John, the rules for British citizens to bring in their parents from overseas has never been generous..you previously had to wait till they were at least 65 years old...a departure from what is in place in other countries, like America, Canada, Australia, NZ..
With the new rules there is now effectively a blanket ban ..a far fry from all these countries who still allow British parents to join their children there.
Yana is not asking for anything from you or other taxpayers. A a taxpayer herself and her husband, want to be able to look after her mum, on a daily basis..not annually. What happens when their mother is too old and frail to fly here...do they just stop seeing each other? Does Yana dump her mum in an old people's home part way round the world and just forget about her?
Yana and John are ale to provide financial guarantees that they have enough money to look after her, without recourse to public funds...it's not a burden on anyone else.
Furthermore, only about 1350 parents moved to he UK in 2010...it's not a huge number and contrary to your insinuation, parents around the world aren't jumping over themselves to come to the UK. They tend to prefer to be around there own friends, in familiar surroundings. The low number of parents who have moved here alone supports this theory. It's something really dire that makes them at an older age, leave everything that is familiar.
A little bit of understanding goes a long way.
Let's have a reality check:
We know that the vast majority of immigrants come from within the EU and the Government has no way of controlling these numbers.
Despite the scaremongering in the press there is no evidence of vast hoards of dependent relatives wanting to rush into this country to take advantage of our free bus passes.
Dependent relatives from outside the EU make up a tiny proportion of total immigration; about 1,000 out of 500,000.
Let's have a reasoned debate on this issue, but let's avoid throwing away our reputation for fairness and justice. Let's also remember our international obligations to uphold human rights.
Let's not allow dependent relatives to become a political football to help to Tories win votes back from the BNP.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19646459
Yana- I'm sorry if I appeared insensitive and unsympathetic to your concerns. I appreciate you want to live with your mom but the reality of globalisation and mass migration in this age is that families are now scattered over the world and to insist on a right to reunion is just not feasible. Thousands of people maintain distance relationships with their parents because they made personal choices which involved moving far away from home for economic, educational reasons etc. And they live with the separation knowing that it is the new reality of their lives. The internet and mobile communication helps a lot to bridge these gaps. In your case you are particularly fortunate that your mom can come over to visit. I suppose if she gets more frail you can travel to Russia more often to see her.
Please let's just be realistic here. You would surely like your mom to come live with you (and surely help with childcare too thus saving huge costs) but in life one cannot get everything that they want. You were allowed in and treated fairly by the rules leading to your citizenship. Every government has an unassailable right to regulate (and amend) its immigration policies as it sees fit, subject of course to basic fairness. I see nothing extraordinarily compassionate in the present case.
Also as is obvious older people need more healthcare. Can you definitely undertake 100% that if allowed into the country she'll never seek out the NHS? I know how much private health care costs in the UK (roughly £300 for a single doctor visit) and I can assure you unless you are a millionaire you won't be able to meet her health costs forever. Someday, you'll bring in another compassionate claim for NHS treatment.
On the arguments that the numbers who come under the elderly dependent visas are low, this is no justification for maintaining a visa route which the UK authorities no longer feel is appropriate due to changing conditions.
John, thanks for your post. Several comments.
First, thank you for keeping your post polite, although you disagree with the crux of the argument being put forward. There are many making the argument you are, who are unable to convey their views without being racist or swearing.
Second, it's mum. I'm sorry I know it's pedantic, but we are not in America. If we were, no such article would need to be written, because America allows parents of its citizens (not residents, just citizens) to migrate there, as long as the American children can show they earn a decent living.
Now, getting on to your comments. You have missed the basic point of it of the reason for this article. Perhaps it would help to read this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20207357
The rules in place in the UK were stringent before 9th July; parents had to be >65 and dependent on their child. This is unlike other countries like America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand which ALL allow their citizens (and in some cases, residents) to have the parents move over regardless of age/health/financial conditions, as long as the children of these parents can demonstrate they can maintain their parents, via a reasonable salary and sometimes, a bond.
Given the numbers involved in the UK, we are not overrun with parents of our citizens moving here - so the rules have deliberately been made so it's impossible now for parents to move here, only to push first and second generation British citizens out of this country. The same citizens who work hard, and like in the BBC article referred to, where the doctor pays £40,000 in taxes a year. If people like this are forced to leave the UK (their country, albeit adopted), how is this actually going to benefit our country? Indeed, if I was the doctor in the article, I'd question why I pay £40,000 in taxes/NI every year, never having claimed benefits, when my own country, or indeed, other western countries would welcome me with open arms and allow me to live with my mum! If more such people of working age leave, pensioners benefits and the state pension, by the time we get there, will be piddly because there won't be enough people working to pay for them. Bear in mind, that non-EU parents also do not qualify for the state pension!!
Additionally, you can buy private medical insurance for around £100 a month.
Finally, before the doors were bolted shut to British citizens willing to provide guarantees to look after their parents - the same parents who cannot claim benefits for at least 5-10 years and don't qualify for the state pension, the fact that the door has been left wide open to foreigners should have been addressed. If instead of being British, any of the people involved in this situations were, or were married to someone, from elsewhere in the EU, they could move to the UK with their parents, grandparent, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins...without having to provide any guarantees...and have access to benefits after 3 months. So as has been already said, British citizens have less rights in UK, than say, a Russian person married to a Polish person. It's unbelievably stupid.
Rules such as these in place will only serve to push hardworking, tax paying people out...and they will be welcomed with open arms by many other countries. The ones who will remain, are the benefit scroungers, who going by my ride to work, are often 'native' British chavs, not migrants. As a taxpayer myself, I understand that in any society you will have dossers who are happy to live off the state rather than go to work themselves - I am not expecting complete reform in people's personalities. But if I am paying for someone - whatever their skin colour/ethnicity - to sponge off the system, I expect to be also able to look after those that gave me life.
(If I am on benefits and can't financially take care of myself, then agree, parents should not be allowed in as they clearly would be a burden on the system...but all the examples raised here have been of those who are net contributors)
Finally (really this time) - the citizenship that these people worked towards and obtained was, as you say, done by the rules. Rules which indicated as citizens they could have their parents join them when they were 65. If the intention was to block this route completely, then it should not apply retrospectively, because people - who may have known they would need to look after their parents in time - will have created a life here on the understanding their parents would be able to join them at a later stage. Otherwise, they may well have gone to study or work elsewhere - America or Australia where the rules are more fair, and quality of life certainly no worse.
John, thank you for the observation. Things you are talking about (mass migration etc) are the fact of modern life and I cannot argue with that. I also know that some other countries found ways to accommodate people’s needs related to family reunification issues. Generalisation is all very good when we talk about things for the academic purposes. However, when we turn to people’s lives and individual circumstances, it is the details that are important. I personally am not prepared to sacrifice my family members’ emotional and psychological well-being to help the government to make the [very approximate] immigration figures look slightly better.
I am sure there are many old people for whom living separately from their families is not an issue. For my mum it is. Yes, I want to live with my mum, but – even more – I want my mum to live with us and, after many years of distress and loneliness, finally start enjoying life and engaging with her grandchildren while she is still capable and healthy – because that’s what she wants, too. If she didn’t, the above piece wouldn’t have been written. If the thought of welcoming the 'unproductive' and 'non-worthy' into the country is painful for some local taxpayers, then maybe the idea that these old foreigners invested good part of their lives in bringing up and educating the current UK taxpayers (in this case, a higher rate taxpayer who can also afford private medical help) and, therefore, deserve some respect, can console them?
I came from the country where millions of people’s lives were shattered to serve the Idea – a very noble and a good one, in theory, but look what happened at the end. We now have three or four generations of people brought up in the society where empathy was counted as a weakness and respect for a private life is almost non-existent. ‘When you cut down the forest, woodchips fly’ – Comrade Stalin used to repeat and it became a proverb because yes it is much easier to get people’s lives adjusted to the state’s needs than spend time and efforts to make the laws fair for everybody. Different country, different forest, and different woodchips, but after reading posts like yours, John, I start feeling very sad.
Very interesting reading.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statistics/re...
This is Great Britain. You can do millions of pounds of investments from India or non EU country. But Your old and lonely parents are not welcome here. They have to go back and live without thier childeren and grand children. They have to live without help and assistance No good moral can be taught by Grand parents. Grand childeren can live lonely life.This is new conservative family policies. Beware before you invest in this great country and pay your taxes from your earnings and wealth.
You can bring your business from overseas not family or parent. This is a new Great Britan
Think Twice Before you invest.All out campaign for money not for family. You may be lossing money and family.
Every human being should have a right to live with their loved ones and look after them. These laws just show how ignorant the conservative govt. policies are and how miss-informed they are with the current reality of a globalised world. I doubt the clear intentions of this conservative govt. which states in its manifesto “Britain the most family-friendly country in Europe” and yet discriminate and teats its own citizens worse off from citizens of other EU member states. The recent policy is such a sham and as stated in the “Statement of Intent: Family Migration” dated June 2012 (para 118 – 125), for a non-EEA parent to join their British citizen child ALL THE FOLLOWING must be satisfied:
(A) PARENT MUST BE UNABLE TO WASH/DRESS HER/HIMSELF. So parent must effectively be paralysed yet expected to be able to get on a plane, fly for hours and fit plane toilets to reach the UK.
(B) PARENT MUST NOT HAVE ANYONE ELSE IN THE HOME COUNTRY WHO CAN HELP BATHE/DRESS HER/HIM. So parent must have no spouse, no children, no siblings and no close friends there.
(C) SPONSOR TO DEMONSTRATE THAT WITH FINANCIAL HELP FROM THEM, COMBINED WITH HELP FROM ANY LOCAL HEALTH/WELFARE SYSTEM, PARENT CANNOT OBTAIN THE REQUIRED LEVEL OF CARE. So if you have money, your parent can’t come over.
(D) SPONSOR MUST PROVE PARENT WILL BE MAINTAINED, ACCOMMODATED AND CARED FOR IN UK, WITHOUT RECOURSE TO PUBLIC FUNDS. So if you don’t have money, your parent can’t come over.
It will be interesting to see how these inhuman and discriminatory policies are challenged in the courts and brought to justice.
I have a very similar situation as Yana with only difference that my mum lives in Ukraine. I understand the government's concerns about the immigration and possible misuse of the healthcare system and so on. Fine, but at least let people stay with their parent(s) for more than 6 months. I'm not even asking for ILR, I would be happy to extend my mum's visa every year and prove that I'm financially capable of taking care of my parent. But no such option exists!
I'm a loyal citizen of this country, I have a business and I have created jobs for locals, I pay high taxes every year. Despite me doing all this, my Polish friend who is a cleaner at my office has more rights than me! Because of this situation I'm thinking of leaving the UK and contribute to that government which is more sensitive towards people family values. I love this country but I see no other choice. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who may follow this route.
There should be a special visa category for parents with certain conditions upon fulfillment of which a parent can stay longer than 6 months in the UK. At the moment, I see no difference between having a tourist visa and a family visitor visa. It looks like random tourists that visit the UK for fun having no ties to this country and parents whose lives literally depend on their British sons/daughters fall under the same category.
Maria, thank you for your comment. Yes, I completely agree that there should be some special arrangement in place when it comes to the elderly parents issue (and a very good point re the "tourist" visas!). The situation as it is now is very unjust, especially, as you have pointed out, there are hundreds of thousands non-UK citizens living in this country and have more rights than us UK citizens. Many people see immigrants as a threat and, after having read some government officials' interviews and statements (some of which are simply untrue), I can see how it's happening and do not blame these people as they are simply victims of disinformation. I too want people to realise that we are not after any benefits and I would also happily provide the proofs of financial sustainability, if there was such an option. The problem at the moment that there is not. I also think that the government immigration policies should not only focus on the economic side of things but also work in the interest of social cohesion and stability of family life of law-abiding and contributing people like you and me. I love this country too but it is sad to see what the current government does to its own people.
Hi Yana, have you actually applied for your mum?
Hi Maria, no we did not apply as mum's situation doesn't meet the new criteria (as you would know yourself, there won't be many people who would be eligible). If you'd like to keep in touch, please write to Guy Taylor at JCWI and ask for my e-mail address.
I do sympathise with Yana’s situation. I would like to add few points to this interesting debate:
1. Does the government have any control over the migration of dependants of the citizens of EU. Irrespective of their ethnicity. It is pertinent to mention here that majority of these rules only effect non-EU citizens.
2. Is the government inviting its citizens to circumvent the law. Is it not a fact that if a Brit immigrates to EU and exercises treaty right, upon his return to the UK he would be considered EU citizen, famous case of Surinder Singh? Thereby allowing him to sponsor dependents, without having to bother about the immigration rules that apply to normal UK citizen. Is it not discriminatory??
3. What is this hu ha about stretching our services if there is immigration from outside EU. Has anybody bothered to look at the percentage of non EEA citizens living in the UK? It is 3.9%, which, by no degree of imagination stretches or have any impact on our services. It is interesting to note that percentage exceeds that of UK in Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Austria and Switzerland. http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/sep/07/immigration-europe-f...
4. Finally, is the UK reached a stage, whereby its selling visa’s to people for as little as £200,000.00, but has no regards to the family and human rights of its citizens. I am referring to the Entrepreneur Visa under Tier 1. If a person shows that he has £200,000.00 he can bring his entire family (his wife and children) to the UK. What if a person is making an application under this route and has a family of 12, this would mean the UK government has sold a visa @ £16,666 each. Is it fair??
The argument I am trying to bring home is that the Policy and laws that our government makes must be consistent and fair to its citizen. However, it appears the government is trying to make Immigration a Political football and these rules are being implemented keeping the political agenda in mind rather than welfare of people.
Vish,
1. Govt doesn't have any control over migration of dependants of Eu citizens, nor does it in fact have any control over depenendants of the non-EU spouse of an EU citizen. i.e. if in this story Yana had been married to an non-British EU citizen, she could not only have had her mum move to the UK, but her grandparents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles and cousins..without any financial requirements to meet! So it's because she married a guy who is British that she has less rights in the UK! Absolutely bizarre.
2. Essentially, yes. I was speaking with someone about this at the pub, and alas, they think the rules as they are, are fine. They appreciate the rules can be circumvented, but at least, in their mind, it makes people go to some trouble for it. This is obviously not whats good for our economy, because we lose taxes in the process, plus this way there are no financial obligations that people who wish to be here with their parents need to meet. Indeed, the ones who will find it easiest to circumvent the rules are the ones with no job, and minimal obligations in the UK, whereas we should not be making it difficult for higher tax earners to actually continue to pay tax while just wanting to meet responsibilities to those who gave them life!!
3. Non-EU parents represent a miniscule proportion of all migrants. Contrary to this governments view, parents all over the world arent jumping over themselves to come to a cold, wet island where they are legally not allowed to claim any benefits. They come here to spend the latter part of their lives with their children, to have a family life. They already have a no recourse to public funds stamped in their passport. If the concern is about the NHS then mandate private healthcare cover as a condition of continued validity of their visa. But to effectively ban them like this is shameful.
4. If parents have £1m cash to invest in the UK, then they qualify for a 1 or 2 year visa. That's the only way to live here now as even retired people of independent means are now no longer allowed to live here. This is a gross departure from other countries like ours - USA, Canada, Australia, NZ..all have greater respect for the requirements of parents to live with their children especially as the parents are ageing; indeed, they PREFER parents to move to their countries while they still are able and fit, and in a position to contribute via volunteering, taxes and indeed, childcare, allowing possibly their kids to go to work! The fact that the UK has disgusting conditions attached, including requiring the parents to be effectively paralysed (and this still wouldn't qualify them to move here) is just degrading and makes me wonder whether we really are in a democracy.
Hi Yana,
Just came back after visiting my dad on a regular visit and read your article with great interest and agree with all the arguments made in favour of allowing elderly parents.
Theresa May has pushed these rules through without taking on board the concerns raised by organisations like Liberty and JCWI, both of which agree that the new rules are inhumane.
No consideration has been given to allow longer term visitor visas (Canada is issuing 2 yrs visitor visas to elderly parents as long as they have medical insurance and normal rules of financial support).
I am in a similar position like yours : am a high rate tax payer. British citizen settled here with my wife (tax payer) and two lovely little kids 1 yr and 6 yr.
But my widowed dad is partially disabled and has been living lonely /isolated in India. Have been making regular trips to India to support as much as I can (every 4 months). However,due to his increasing disability I have started seeing the isolation/ desperation and loneliness in his eyes which is heartbreaking.
After having worked hard to pay taxes and settle in this country for 10 years the government has very unkindly pulled the rug from under my feet.
However I still have moral values and cannot dump my lovely dad alone. Therefore, my wife &kids will be going to India this year to stay with him until I can either get them all here or get a job in India. No thanks to the british government for breaking up a British Citizen's family.
Keep believing and hoping for a change,
Regards,
Hi Yana,
First of all, I believe the introduction of the new Immigration policy (in regards to Non-EU elderly relatives joining their British families) is downright appalling. You are well within your right to bring your mum over under your particular circumstance:
1. You're British citizen, surely your immediate family members such as mother, father, sons & daughters should be allowed to live with you. It sounds like basic human rights to me. EU, Non-EU, ethnic background, etc. These shouldn't be the defining issue IMHO. this is 2013 Britain not 1970s North Korea, for crying out loud!
2. Since your mum would have no recourse to public funds (as clearly stated here at bullet point 3 under 'Can you apply?' http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/partners-families/ci...), and 5 years at that. And her living cost would be covered by yourself. I don't see how she would be a burden of the society.
It's that simple: Are you directly related to a British citizen (who you wish to be reunited with), will you be able to support yourself financially for 5 years? These are the two things that actually matters.
I don't how when some people read 'bringing one's widowed elderly mother over to join the family' and translate it into '...supporting changes for partners and children becoming a back door for you to lobby for extended families...' and '...endless demands for privileges, favours, concessions, rights etc...'?!? Is mother/father classed as extended family in Britain?!? Didn't she say she'd take care of the finances without public funds?!?
It's even more ridiculous when EU citizens can bring their Non-EU relatives and extended family members here with no questions asked, and you turn around and tell your own tax paying citizen that his/her family can't come because of some technicality?!? This is utterly ungrateful to say the very least!
Any by the way, to tell people that 'You always have the option of moving back to your homeland to care for them', and suggest it's easy to just leave one's job, family, life here and start all over again? Not everybody has to make such decisions to start a life in another country and clearly not everybody would understand the difficulties that comes with it. But a little understanding goes a long way. Although we are going through a touch time at the moment and people (government) put more emphasis on the bottom line, I just thought we should aim a little higher than the bare minimum.
P.S. Will people read the official version of this regulation from UKBA's website before express their personal opinion please? These are sensitive and emotional topics and real people's lives are at stake, please show some respect.
All the best to you and your family Yana, I hope the government will revert this ludicrous piece of legislation soon.
Lu, your comment was heartwarming to read..and its good to see more people understanding the issue. Interestingly, a letter from Lord Taylor to Lord Avebury indicates the number of adult dependant visas issued under the new rules, since 9th July, WORLDWIDE is, wait for it, one. That's right. One adult dependant visa issued world wide. This covers immediate family such as parents, grandparents and adult siblings. Indeed, I'm surprised it's even one, given I think the criteria is actually impossible to meet. But as we know, the UKBA makes mistakes!
http://www.latitudelaw.com/news/family-migration/shocking-dependent-rela...
Thank you @BritCits. As you could probably see I got quite frustrated upon hearing this news. To me it's all too clear - Injustice is being carried out systematically on a national scale to manipulate public opinion in order to gain political advantages.
I didn't want to believe that fiscal frustration would result to such insidious political sham! At least not in this country. I always believed that we should know better and be less ignorant, given the free public educations and all the other social/political benefits that come with being British, which we totally take for granted. And since when have we become the gullible bunch who would jump so fast on the finger pointing band wagon at first sign of any kind of dispute? Have we become so comfortably numb and now just can't be bothered to dig deeper into important issues and think for ourselves? This government
Here's the (actual) bottom line: Yana is a British citizen, and that classes her as one of us (regardless of one's ethic origin, gender, age, sexual orientation, and religious belief). She pays her tax, does her part in contributing to our society. For the government to deny her the right to a family reunion is like to bite the hand that feeds you. Instead of depriving a widowed elderly woman basic human rights, why doesn't the government do something about the benefits claiming chavs, who do nothing all day but causing grieves to their local communities!
Saddened to discover yesterday that rules to bring elderly parents changed last June; I was completely unaware of all this time. I found a new job; my house purchase is near completion and I thought it is a good time to check which application form I need to fill in to bring my parents here as I will have sufficient space for them now. But goal posts have changed now and I feel so depressed.
being a UK citizen I have no right to have my parents here. On the other hand, all other EU nationalities have no issue bringing their parents here at all - how is that fair? I am paying taxes from my well over £100k a year salary to sponsor benefits and broken NHS, and yet I found myself in the category of a second class with no rights to family life. and yes I do consider moving to other EU state to rectify this. And please dont tell me that Britain dont need me - I am creating wealth, paying huge taxes, have visited NHS once in the last 10 years, never claimed a single benefit in my life, and have sent my kid to a private school. So, whats the balance Jeff? Fair?
If all worries are about this so-called “burden on the NHS” then the new law, for example, could introduce a new requirement to make it mandatory for sponsors/children to provide private health insurance for their parents. That would be more human approach.
And if the worries are about immigration stats then I don’t know how the new law can help since according to the government figures just over 1000 parents per year have moved to UK prior to the new law which is, in effect, a very tiny fraction of the immigration population to this country.
Furthermore, It is impossible for me to comprehend why European citizens can freely bring their parents to this country while a tax-payer British citizen is not. This law is really cruel and inhuman.
I would appreciate if this is appropriate please do sign this e-petition.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/36798
Most of what I read on the forums on this website is rhetoric. I think that we (affected parties and reasonable, open-minded people) can agree that the new rules are draconian and inhuman. Okay - other developed countries have more sensible immigration policies.
CAN WE MOVE ON?
NOW THAT WE ARE IN THIS RUT, WHAT ARE OUR OPTIONS?
- Emigrating: not practical - I didn't spend the best years of my youth to build up a life in the UK just to throw it away and start from scratch in another country, even if it is my homeland.
- Make the ILR applications for my parents - will definitely fail - appeal: probably will fail that too - I don't think anybody's parents can satisfy the impossible rules. Why would the courts pass judgements contravening legislation passed by Parliament? Article 8 cannot be relied upon either (examples on Liberty's website)
- Wait and pray for the Tories to lose the 2015 elections and hope for a more reasonable Home Secretary in the next government: even if this was to happen, do we or more importantly, do our parents have the time?
which leaves us with one other option.........
- TRY TO CHANGE THE LAW NOW: ANY [CONSTRUCTIVE, PRACTICAL] IDEAS???
After reading some of the comments regarding the Adult Dependent immigration policies, I'm a little disgusted by the intolerance and lack of compassion by some posters. I have to admit that I feel like I'm not welcome in England although I feel I would be able to easily integrate and embrace the British lifestyle. When visiting England I feel very much at home with the lifestyle and I am always absolutely overwhelmed with the history and culture. What a beautiful country, yes - despite the weather!
I myself was an immigrant to the U.S. Shortly after arriving in the U.S. my mother got a job before she even learned the language. She was so grateful to be free from political repression and extremely appreciative that the U.S. took us in with open arms. We embraced the lifestyle and culture of the American people. I can proudly say that my family built a substantial life for themselves without welfare, medicare or other government assistance despite the fact that my own children are first generation Americans.
Today I find myself in despair that my British husband can't find a way back to his own homeland because he married me. I guess you can say that there is a sense of guilt on my part that I hold him back from just being able to return "home". My husband is British born, his parents are british born, their parents were British born - in fact his British heritage goes back over 100 years. Probably a rock solid reason for him to have a right to abode and an entitlement to have a family life in the UK with his non British wife and kids.
My husband came to the U.S. after a failed marriage in the U.K. He had no intention of staying here but after dating for 2 years, we got married. At that time my mother was on dialysis. We talked about moving to the U.K. to join the rest of our family but there was no circumstance where I would have even considered leaving my mother behind. She had private insurance that she continued to pay even after her retirement but that insurance would not have translated to the extent that it would have needed to if we had moved to the U.K. My husband was gracious enough to leave his own family behind so that we could be here for my mother. In fact, she moved in with us shortly after our wedding. We were both extremely grateful to have had time with her while she was still healthy and strong. She got to know her grandkids and we were a strong family unit.
My mother has since passed away. I am forever grateful that we got time to build memories and share our lives with her. And yet, even though we were there for her for all those years, there are still gnawing questions now that she's gone - did I do enough for her? - did I say I love you enough? - did I SHOW her how much I loved her every day? I don't know what kind of guilt I would have lived with if I could not have been there for her at all.
We have no family in the U.S. except the 4 of us - husband, me, 2 kids. Everyone who is family is in the UK. I'm an only child with no siblings. My mother has two sisters but I haven't had a relationship with them in the last 35 years or more. Holidays are always difficult for us without being around the rest of the family. While others around us have family over for the holidays, we have to rely on Skype to share a brief holiday greeting and well wishes with the rest of our family in the U.K.
In the last year my husbands mum has become very ill. More recently she has been diagnosed with terminal cancer. To top it all off, his dad has just been diagnosed with cancer. My husband is beside himself that we are so far away. His parents are devastated that we are not there to spend whatever time they have left together. After being offered a job earning over £90k a year we found out that we could not all come over as a family. We have two children, one who can be considered a minor and one who is over age 18. My eldest son is in college and lives with us. He is our dependent and we wanted to move to the U.K. as a family but sadly this is not possible. Why are the laws the same across the board? This is hurting my husband, a British born citizen. The laws are NOT fair or equitable.
In the past 4 months alone we've spent over $10,000 traveling back and forth to the U.K. so that my husband could see his parents and so that his parents could have a little time with the whole family. This is not something we can realistically maintain. It's been a terrible financial burden for us. All we want to do is be with our family. We are devastated to know that there is no option for us to be there together and our life has been turned upside down.
Not all immigrants are leeches on society. I believe that no one would disagree that we are a good example of that so I resent being considered a potential drain on the U.K. economy. In addition, the immigration abuse is not unique to the U.K. The U.S. is not without it's own immigration issues and people taking advantage of the system. But it's some of the U.S. Immigration's own policies that make it easy for the system to be abused. Vish727 earlier mentioned that the new laws in the U.K. would encourage people to "circumvent the law" and I do strongly agree with this. It seems to me the new U.K immigration laws are counter productive in that they seem to accomplish exactly what they say they are trying to avoid. And yet people like ourselves who would be nothing but contributing members of society are not welcome. My kids are young and healthy - they will become contributing members of society. Should a 20 year old really be allowed to the U.K. only if disabled and incapable of caring for themselves? We'll be paying for university for both of them and will be paying international fees for my eldest, further contributing to the economy in England. I don't think this is a drain on the economy or a burden to society. How does any of this make sense? I spend hours on the internet looking for answers and what I find seems clear to me, albeit incredulous. As Vish727 said in their post and what many others have eluded to are completely right - the rules are being implemented keeping the political agenda in mind rather than welfare of people. Just visit parliament.uk and watch the videos!
Sorry for taking so much of everyone's time and for my final rant but I thought it might be worth posting our story since, at least in my eyes, it seems so compelling for implementing change.
I just want to clarify that my post is not to take away from or compete with John and Yana's story. Their story is equally heartbreaking. I wanted to tell my story as another extreme example of how the new laws are affecting the wrong people. Those of us affected are beyond despair.
UStoUK
Thanks for your post, we are all in this together.
Your story highlights well the way the recent rule changes hit many UK citizens who are now exiled abroad with many of those affected are unaware that their route back to the UK has now been blocked. Whilst the new rules are intended to save money I wonder how many people in the UK will need to draw on the welfare state because caring sons/daughters are unable to return to the UK and care for their dependents for free? So instead of reducing the burden on the welfare state the new rules will actually increase cost to the taxpayer.
Today is Mothers Day, a chance for us to celebrate as a family the wonderful gifts that my wife has brought to us and the wonderful dedication of my mother in law who has helped us all through the last seven months since our girls were born. But the joy of the day is shrouded with uncertainty and doubt. What will the position be next year or even this summer when our girls will celebrate their first birthday. We do not know.
We have a Right to Family life but are confronted by rules that are designed to deny us that very basic right and a Home Secretary committed to further dismantle our Human Rights. We are faced with a Government obsessed with material values and wealth creation for the rich, a Government that does not understand the value of family life. Do we need to put a monetary value on everything before it becomes important?
If I could calculate the monetary value of my girls being kissed by their grand mother in the morning, or being soothed when they cry- may be then the MAC could carry out a cost benefit analysis for Theresa May and tell us if allowing dependent relatives into the UK is a “good investment” or not.
Thank you for your post, UStoUK. It just shows the diversity of people's lives and situations and how these 'one-size-fits-all' policies affect different families creating what I would call nothing but humanitarian disaster. If you have not yet done so, please send your story to http://www.britcits.com/ (There is a group of proactive Brits called Britcits who are collecting stories of families affected by the rules for lobbying purposes and for raising awareness of the plight of those affected.)
If the government are not worried about the humanitarian aspects of the new rules then maybe the fact that foreign doctors started leaving this country because of the new immigration rules will be a wake-up call: http://bma.org.uk/news-views-analysis/news/2013/march/family-migration-r...
@Yana - I'll take a look at the Britcits site and send my story to them. The more people that open up about this issue the better. We've been following your story closely. I had sent the story to my husband a few months ago and he just looked at me after reading and said "what chance do we have?" I'm very frustrated and feel somewhat betrayed by the new rules. More so for my husband than myself since Britain is not my homeland. @Concerned - interesting article. Something needs to wake them up as I just don't see this as a positive move for England.
Hi All
I am in the same situation as Yana..
However, my mom is really have weak limbs and prone to fall. Doctor advice she should live with her family. Even if we have maid, it is never the same.
The maid might not be able to continue as i have stop working in my home singapore.
I could not proof any financial in my home country.
Day care cost a huge amount of money! £500 a month for just one hr for 3 times a week!
if we once more frequent, it will cost even more.
i really hope UK govt will pity single old age parent.
I am really sad and feeling troubled. :(
I move to UK to be with my husband as my husband left UK before and would like to stay in UK for good.
UK would be a better place for my mom than Singapore as it is more old age friendly.
Is it worth asking our respective MPs to sign this Early Day Motion:
http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/914
Guys go thru this and sign in if its appropriate for u and pass it on to friends.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/36798
To everyone who wants to bring their parent(s)s over to the UK as their dependent(s):
I am seriously giving consideration to mounting a legal challenge to the unfair rules restricting us bringing our parents to live with us. But cannot afford to do it on my own. As far as I know, the current case in the Birmingham court is only about the income threshold to sponsoring spouse/fiance - I have sought clarifications on other threads on this website.
Any else in the same situation as me wanting to challenge the rules in the courts? Please write to DespondentDaughter@gmail.com.
I would also be grateful for advice/comments from solicitors willing to help us.
Thanks.
I realize that the rules as they pertain to you only involve a parent but the UKBA statement is for parents, sons, daughters, siblings, etc over age 18. You might consider others experiencing an issue over any adult dependent rather than only those with parents that they want to bring over. I would be more than happy to challenge the rules as long as it relates to the rules as a whole, not in part. We are all suffering from being unable to live with our "other dependents" in the UK and my son, regardless if his age, should be entitled to be with us as part of a unified family - not under some other scheme where he would be constantly at risk if being sent back to the US. I'd like to feel that we are all sympathetic to each others issues. There is strength in numbers and the fact is that what we are all asking for is the basic right to family and private life.
Where these rules are (with my non-legal background) I believe going to be found to be illegal, is that they are impossible to satsify. I dont think any body, govt or otherwise, is allowed to keep rules in place which that body itself cannot give examples of anyone satisfying, yet charging c£2000 for an application. I believe thats fraud.
So whether its for parents, gparents, siblings, adult kids etc, my above comment applies.
I think the rules as they are now are akin to saying that your adult non-EU family isnt allowed in the country...but the govt doesnt actually say that.
Thanks UKtoUS & BritCits.
I can get too focussed/blinkered - especially in this matter which is making me very stressed. If we challenge it, it will be for ALL DEPENDENT RELATIVES (except spouses/fiances, only because they are dealt with under separate rules).
If the other challenge at the Birmingham court is successful, I am expecting lots of others in the same situation as us would be willing to join in a legal challenge.
Just talking about it in forums isn't going to change much, we have to do something else.
Dear All,
This may be of interest. However, the sad thing is, unless this number goes to 100,000 - it wont be debated in the parliament. I have done my bit - have you?
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/36798
Dear All,
I am in a similar boat like everyone with my physically disabled dad living alone --- back in his home country.
I have now got hime here for six months on a family visitor but when that expires my wife and kids will be going with him to care for him.
A British family being broken because of Theresa's unjust rules.
Are there any JCWI solicitors who can help me put up a case for my DAD.
regards
Whatever the rules are, we are going to give it a go and hope eventually the rules change. We will be going through a consultation with a solicitor end of April - early May, if there are any on here, please feel free to contact me as well. I'm absolutely in for a group legal challenge I just haven't found a lot of solicitors who are willing to take on any cases related to the adult dependent route.
Sad to see so many people stressed over not being able to be reunited with your family. Such a simple right that should never be in question. I fear the rumors of Ms. May positioning herself to succeed Cameron.
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